From the makers of Pedigree Dogs Exposed, the latest news and views regarding inherited disorders and conformation issues in purebred dogs.
You are on to something here.....There are so many naive companies cashing in on the cute factor when it's actually the deformed and disabled factor. We could suggest to BT, Bulldog skin care and the Sunday Times Style magazine that they should substitute these animals with their human equivalents. Disabled and deformed children....go down a treat that would. Somehow I don't think people would be saying 'awwwwwww!' would they? So why do they continue to do this when they see these deformed dogs? Because they are misinformed about normal canine anatomy and physiology.
Yes absolutely they are misinformed about normal canine anatomy and physiology.I have to confess so was I. Especially as far as the Pug was concerned.For many many years I wanted some black pugs for house dogs as this was a bit of a tradition in our family going back quite some time. Fortunately they are very rare where I live but the thing was it wasn't so much colour that kept me away it was eyes all eyes. I just couldn't stand the bulging misaligned eyes pointing East West not in any degree. I had also known completely blind Pugs so was very cautious. It also became obvious that they were riddled with other health problems. So I never actually bought a Pug. I didn't know about stenotic nares.Yes I did know these dogs had a long list of problems but stenotic nares were never mentioned as one of them on breeders sites or anywhere and as I never went as far as to buy a Pug I was none the wiser for many years until PED!Suddenly I was seeing blocked noses everywhere including the French bulldog.Having said that many Pug owners are not even aware their dogs have any breathing difficulties at all.
How can people not see it?!!I suppose people just don't pay much attention to anything that doesn't centre around themselves or their favourite celebrity.Pathetic.Look at a dingo. Then look at a pug.The dingo is a relative of the first domesticated dogs, before we started messing with their shape.All pariah dogs (never been bred for looks or anything - they just breed naturally amongst themselves as nature intended) look like dingos. This is the natural state of the domestic dog. Not quite like a wolf (dogs original ancestor) but similar in structure. Skeleton is almost identical at least although dogs are smaller overall with slightly shorter legs and a metabolism that allows them to eat less meat and more vegetable matter.Please can we stop breeding hideous freaks of nature and let's allow dogs to look like nature intended them - which is very beautiful in my opinion.
Having said all that I saw a very interesting black Pug on Jemima's PED facebook page, it looks vastly improved and rather cute......hmmmm who knows maybe one day I will get a couple of black pugs but I suspect this one is a one off though I don't honestly know as there isn't much info.Its still a vast improvement how ever it came into being. The pedigree part doesn't interest me much anyway.
Must say, at least that Pug has decent nostrils, and some muzzle..
Maybe somebody could put me right? but, the little blind setter puppy I mentioned recently who has sadly gone back to her breeder who should have kept her in the first place. One of the things about her was that she appeared to have an enlarged skull which the vet felt that she may have hydroencephalitis (misspelled, sorry) and that whilst the puppy is cross eyed, seemingly as time passes and the condition worsens her eyes will start to look as above? Does anybody know if that is fact? I would think it would be a good idea to forward that advertisement to the KC UK and see what their reaction would be.
The eyes usually look downwards, they can bulge but not always other symptoms are soft spots on the skull , lifting / flapping their front feet when they walk. limb weakness, seizures. difficulty eating , squinting in bright lights. Ears set high on the back of the heada neurologist would be able to spot a lot more un noticed symptoms in a dog than the owner or a general vet.the usual reason for bulging eyes in pugs and pekingese is that the sockets are too shallow
Thanks for your reply, sadly she did walk like a hackney pony which I thought was because she was using them as "feelers". I'll never know what happened to her, I can only hope her breeder looks after her and does the right thing, but I doubt it somehow, because seemingly she was extremely rude and angry that the puppy had been taken back and that she was now her responsibility. Very sad but one of the reasons why I really worry about why some people breed in the first place. She was a lovely little puppy, beautifully reared and clearly well handled and socialised so it was a real concern that the breeder could part with her in the first place. Anyway thanks again for your response. G
The ad is sad and unacceptable in both the canine and the hypothetical human version. :(
I'd press "like" if that was on facebook))Well... this billboard is an illustration of folk's ignorance.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dog-breeders-issue-massive-recall-of-07-pugs,2206/if only breeders and buyers did think as much about buying/selling a dog as they do a refrigerator
Quite honestly buyers can think all they want and still get a complete wreck. Georgina's story is rather all too typical.I think this whole "they should've done their homework" stuff is ridiculous it takes away from the fact that it's the breeders who are responsible for breeding horribly inbred linebred mostly also suffering animals. The buyer gets the unavoidable problems from these so called responsible breeders.Making the general public aware is the only way to ultimately stop this. Show breeders are unlikely to change until they stop being rewarded for their monstrous creations.What to do about all the puppy mills possibly producing the same well close them down is the only solution. It can't be that difficult to regulate the number of breeding dogs anyone is allowed to keep and the manner in which they are kept (he says confidently).
I think in many ways starting with puppy farmers/mills would be a good way forward. I have just watched an horrific situation about puppy farmers on the television and the conditions for the dogs was horrific. They were kept in wire crates all sides, their feet and legs falling through, no support just so the bl..... owner didn't have to let them out to relieve themselves. No bedding, no water, very few meal times too, from the condition of the dogs. Unspeakable, I can't describe more of the programme. There is no humanity whatsoever and if the authorities don't have the manpower to regularly check these premises then they should be off the agenda and closed down. The resources directed elsewhere but the taxes we pay locally are so thinly spread nothing is properly overseen. So just take dogs out of it. Close them down. The argument that dog food suppliers, staff, vet bills, cleaning products, maintenance is non existent because from what I saw and have seen previously means that the only person benefiting is the f...... disgusting owner. If I had my way I'd put them in an identical enclosure and leave them for a month in exactly the same conditions. The PED facebook is very enlightening and the number of breeds failing is deplorable, really I ask you all when is it going to end and how is it going to end? The dogs don't deserve our ignorance.
Actualy, I think puppy farms are are a dumbed down environments way to fight back with an alternative. The dogs don't deserve this, but people want dogs. The K.Cs won't take responsibility, they put that all on the buyer who 'Doesn't do his homework" But the amount of home work needed just to buy a healthy dog and you might as well join and become a breeder! If the environments needs can't be met reliably and easily thru' the K.Cs, and BYBers are all unethical, then where else is there left? No, I think the K.Cs are part of the cause of puppy farms, due to their exclusionist philosphy. After all, a pedigree is based on whats excluded, not what it realy is. Its a piece of paper bestowed after the fact. This why I dissagree with restrictions. Its a cycle thats been brought on by focusing on what should be excluded, not what should be aimed for. We all follow blindly. The most effective organizations (or organisms )work with their environments to find a natural balance and self governance through open communication with their environment . That takes clear intent . There can be no clear intent under current rules and Regs. because they are based on excluding the environment. ( K.Cs are nothing to do with YOU, so butt out./ Why should we be responsible for environment when We have it right? = no responsibility in messages either way. ) The ones who should be leading the way with their monopoly on knowledgeable people will only do so from within, after the message of improvement has been corrupted by exclusion first.Aussie.
Yes.I feel buyers are paying a terrible price and the dogs for the sins of the few.PED has changed public perceptions a lot but obviously not completely or absolutely yet.You just have to look on youtube how many ooos and ahhhhs there are when a deformed little unfortunate French Bulldog puppy appears. Hardly any if any people point out what we here mostly know as the obvious.
Oh yes puppy mills the world over. Of course this is the irony you are as far as Im concerned slightly more likely to "score" a healthy dog from this horrific situation as from a so called "responsible" breeder of pedigree showing dogs.Your dog wont be bred for extremes for one or those failing the extreme type target and health by show breeders (equally inbred and prone to every disease known to dogdom) wont be aimed at you the puppy buying public.Both should be targeted same time. Pedigree show breeders and puppy mills.Im not naming names here (just yet, Im sure I will be tempted) but show breeders often have more rejects (pet quality) than they know what to do with or can palm off onto unsuspecting pet buyers and it's not unknown, or rather more common than we think to sell these rejects to bulk buyers who then ship them all over the globe. They often pay a good price too.These unfortunates are no better than the products of puppy mills the only difference is that puppy mill puppies may or may not come with a pedigree and may or may not get a better start in life at a show breeder or somewhere who knows where and their parents maybe a better deal in life than at puppy mills.Judging by the number of dogs permanently up for adoption looking for their "forever" homes on show breeders web sites Im thinking the only difference between them and puppy mills may or again even may not be in the housing these ex-breeding animals and excess puppies receive.I have visited show "responsible breeders" with upwards of seventy dogs housed in a yard no bigger than my vegetable garden these "responsible" breeders keep them all.Lets face it or rather I wish show breeders would, it takes line breeding and inbreeding to produce a uniform litter of pups that meet the extremes called for in the show ring be it size or flatness of face, size of bone everything.No way around that. But this is exactly what is causing the problems too.But why should all puppies look for example cobby and typey to this degree, our parents don't sigh with disappointment that we don't look exactly like grand papa Harry or like our brother/sister. The only way they will do is if Mama did the naughty with her uncle and etc.Variation no matter how slight and robust health is the key. The spice of life too.
I suspect the pedigree show people are fuelling the puppy farmers sales because the prices of the show breeders dogs are so expensive. How can you justify asking £850 for a puppy Golden Retreiver (particularly as so many show breeders breed them anyway - the show classes for Goldies are always full to bursting). The can't say it's to recompense them for all the health tests they have to have done, because a Goldie bitch may throw anything from 4 to 9 puppies. Times that by £850 then, say they have just 2 litters off the same bitch, times that by 2. You have well over what they would have to pay for the health tests and they still have money in their pockets after feeding bills and heating bills for 8 weeks. Greed is making Jo public look for cheaper alternatives and because Jo public is not well informed about breeding practices, hence you have a sale at the puppy farm.
Yes absoluteyl, BTW Who in their right minds pays 850 pounds for a golden retriever with an almost certain unhealthy future?Im almost tempted into saying "Jo public" is fully informed when they make their purchase from somewhere like "Preloved". It doesn't have to be a puppy mill. A non-showing breeder is preferable.
@anon 16:33I'm somewhat anti-pedigree but your logic is ridiculous. The breeders who price their dogs high have no problems selling them. Making them cheaper would only mean that some richer folks get turned away instead of poorer folks.The total number of people wanting a Golden would still stay the same. Unless you think that poorer folks when compared to richer folks are more likely to buy a puppy mill dog than not have a dog at all, I don't see how show dog pricing can fuel puppy mill sales.
Not answering for Anon but I know for a fact that some breeders at least believe that if their customers are well off enough (stupid enough) to buy one of their dogs they are well off enough to pay for all the excessive vet bills the dog is going to need too.People paying these prices are doing so because they believe pedigree is better, the puppy comes from CC lines etc. Its the belief that this somehow equates to quality which of course it doesn't necessarily. In fact its more likely to equate to a dog that is the result of generations and generations of line breeding to a wining model. An extremely bad prospect in other words and most certainly when it will be a "pet quality" dog. Add to this.. if it's a breed with unhealthy exaggerations you are literally throwing good money away not to mention the heart ache involved.I think more and more people are realising this and don't have an alternative. If you are looking for a good pet breeder i.e. not someone who line breeds and inbreeds to fixed standards and shows dogs its pretty difficult to find your way. This is changing though with more and more breeds, so there is more choice.I don't know if this encourages puppy mills myself, but it's true you could sadly probably get a healthier puppy this route and very much cheaper.I think its getting harder and harder to buy a decent puppy and this is definitely the fault of breeders in the showing fancy. It's also becoming prohibitively complicated for your average person having chosen a breed wanting a healthy pet.Taking a chance on a back yard breeder who doesn't breed show dogs or even a pet shop must of course be very tempting, as must crosses be and of course simply rescuing a dog from a shelter.Seems ironic that pedigree show breeders on top of everything still want to charge these prices. There will always be people who are buying a dog for a status symbol a dog that must have come from a long line of champions. However Im sure even these are becoming better informed these days especially when they realise their status symbol has now come to mean something very different. An unhealthy wreck in the eyes of many, not exactly something to be proud about.
Great analogy. Add some wrinkles and an even flatter face to the kid and you'll make it even better!!! More comparisons like this would make for a great campaign!
These people have no idea of what they speak. A pup from a breeder with a pedigree , stating all its liniage, and hopefully all the testing done with the breeding parents is well worth the money. Do you realize how much time, effort and especially the money that goes into breeding a really nice to standard litter ? tons and tons. and usually the breeder is not making money on it at all. Of course not all breeders are reputable and do all the health testing needed. That's where buyers should do their homework. Im for homing pound pups too.. but you get what you get. temperament issues, vet bills and unhealthy pups are very possible.
Problem is it depends on your definition of " nice" .A couple of the most unsound dogs we ever had where thought wonderful " type" but the " type " they look for in the ring is caused by a serious health condition.
The dogs chose better than our experts. When dogs ran loose and chose their own sexual partners, unfit males didn't breed much, and healthier males bred more often. We messed up by trying to micro-manage dog breeding. It isn't rocket science - the dogs running loose made for a healthier type of dog, as it still does in many 'less advanced' places in the world.We don't need a MORE detailed standard - just "Choose healthier, less extreme dogs of the right general type which you are looking for".
I was looking at cards today in a shop, and many of the cards with a dog on the cover, had Bulldogs, Pugs, or other flat-faced purebred breeds. Many had very narrow nostrils. It isn't really funny - unless you are the sort who laughs at photos of suffering animals.